Naughty Thoughts Lineup Question

Ok before people get too excited and emotional I want to set the record straight.  We, the PAFFL, have made lineup changes when there were obvious ones to be made and the owner has been delinquent, throughout this season and in every year of the past decade+. The PAFFL is and always has been about fun competition, to ensure that its as fair as it possibly its critical all of us are committed to winning each & every week.  When there is an obvious lineup issue (such as leaving a kicker on bye week in over one on the bench, or a starting QB is out due to injury and their backup is on that same team's bench), we have & do make changes. 

This week I swapped out the injured Jeff Garcia for the starting Luke McCown about 10 minutes prior to the start of the Tampa Bay game (I believe there is a timestamp on the lineup change on the website).  I was watching every game and even made a couple comments to teams about possible injury replacement/lineup suggestions the past two weeks. 

For the record I pointed out a questionable lineup last week with the Naughty Thoughts (they left a #4 WR Mike Furrey in their lineup - he had 0 catches BTW - over a starting WR Brandon Stokley) and was suspicious that they were not putting forth their 'best' effort.

As for the various questions regarding this issue:
RE: Pomona - the week they started Travis Henry & Shaun Alexander even though both were out, you will also note that they didn't have another 'playing' RB option, thus no lineup substitution was made. 
RE: Larry Fitzgerald - I didn't realize he wasn't going to play but even if I did Team Kitty messed up b/c by the time Fitzgerald was ruled out, TK had already started his other WR's in the none WR spots (Flex spots) in the morning games - so he couldn't start Desmond Clark in that spot.  I suspect Team Kitty was aware of this since they play to win and was on top of their lineup. 

Precedent -  There have been hundreds of instances where one of the PAFFL officials (Commissioner or Secretary) has made a lineup substitution on behalf of another owner over the past decade.  The vast majority (if not every instance) has been when a delinquent owner has kept an injured QB or on bye week player in their lineup.  This happens during the course of the year and isn't limited to week 13, its just more present b/c of the potential for ethical situations when teams want to lose for rookie tournament seeding.

The system is not perfect, I believe this brings us to the argument we had last season where we proposed tweaking of the rookie tournament seeding.  This would reduce the need for teams to 'tank' during the stretch, ensure teams don't dump all their 'stars' at the end of each season while also guaranteeing the worst teams have a solid selection (the worst team would be guaranteed the #5 selection - ala the NBA draft lottery). 

Comments

[Black Liberace]

Let's Go Willis!!!

[todd2006]

I was with Team Kitty this morning during the 10 AM games. He swore up and down that Fitz was going to start. I told him I had heard otherwise. No changes were made. Team Kitty did hype up Heath Evans as someone he should have played instead of Booker.

When I logged into a website showing inactive players, I noticed Fitz was OUT for today. I told Team Kitty and he said it was too late because the game had already started. No mention of Desmond Clark... until he scored a TD in the Chicago 1 pm game.

[todd2006]

As I posted on the other website...

First, I didn't make the change. Let's get that out of the
way.

Second, I have to believe that if Marty were on the verge of
making the playoffs, he would have either (a) had computer
access prior to the Tampa Bay start time to check on
Garcia's injury status or (b) communicated to
Beavercats/JIbbers/Myself to make the change for him if Garcia was
out. Almost every other owner in the PAFFL has done this at
one point or another, including Team Kitty. My most recent
example was multiple e-mails from the Firefighters when he was on the
East Coast and "possibly" away from Internet access. Pomona also communicated multiple times this year in managing his team while he was away from the computer.

That's the real issue here. I honestly believe that if Naughty Thoughts (or any owner) was in the playoff hunt, he'd have made a change. It's not just any other week; it's week 13. These games have huge playoff implications.

I hear what Team Kitty's saying. I'd be pissed too if someone
else made a switch for an absent owner. However, there is
league precedent for making these kind of changes when an owner is "asleep at the wheel" and not taking the necessary steps to manage their team.

[Team Kitty]

This is utter horse shit. First, Firkin, questioned why Garcia was in the lineup at 4:26 p.m. eastern time (1:26 p.m. pacific standard). The Tampa Bay game had started before that message was posted. I'd love to see the time stamp on the lineup change.

Second, Marty made a conscious decision before the morning games began to act on the information he had available to him and he chose Garcia... just as I did Fitzgerald. The fact that someone else has the power to decide that Marty's decision was not legitimate is beyond ludicrous. He is neither an absentee owner nor is he trying to position himself in the rookie playoffs. Had this been so, Cotchery would still be in his lineup.

As for the Travis Henry/Shaun Alexander situation, Talbott had Mike Bell on his roster and could've started him... so that argument is out.

The bottom line is that there is no way the commissioner's decision (likely post-game time) should override the conscious decision of a league owner to play someone. If this is the case, it needs to be done every week (as each game effects the outcome of a season). It can't be done arbitrarily or whimsically.

After hearing Marty's play-by-play of his Sunday morning decisionmaking, it should be a no-brainer to replace McCown with Garcia and subtract 13 points from his score.

[Naughty Thoughts]

Explain why it's ok for Blak Jesus not to start a QB in this same situation. There were two STARTING qb's on the F/A wire this week - Dilfer, who everyone knew would be starting, and McCown, who most should've realized would start if Garcia was a no-go. Dilfer went for $4 in the F/A draft and McCown went for $3. Blak Jesus has $7 to spend. Why wouldn't the league management bid $7 for Blak Jesus on one of those guys (especially Dilfer who everyone knew would be starting)? Blak Jesus obviously has given up on the season. He has had no QB in his lineup for 7 out of the last 8 weeks! If PAFFL management swaps McCown for Garcia (despite NT conciously making lineup changes earlier in the morning), I think managment most certainly should force a team like Blak Jesus to bid $7 on a starting qb available in the open market. And if BJ had acquired Dilfer it may have changed the outcome of their game.

Now, last week, leaving Mike Furrey in my lineup was a mistake and I'll admit that had I been paying more attention, Stokley would have been a better option. I actually didn't know Furrey was in my lineup until it was too late (and anyone could've notified me via cell or text). It seems that the only reason he was in my lineup was b/c Steve Smith was hurt the previous week, leaving Furrey in my lineup from the prior week. Between hosting Thanksgiving and preparing for a fishing trip to Oregon the next morning, Furrey slipped through the cracks and I have no problem admitting that had I been more on the ball, I should've made the switch. I did, however, get a text from Weaver on Friday alterting me that Steve Smith was still on my bench. When I got back from my fishing trip the first thing I did was check Steve Smith's status, saw he was active and put him back in my lineup.

And by the way, Pomona started Javon Walker last week and he was held out of the game due to injury. Why didn't Paffl management do something about that?

What about Weaver and Fitzgerald yesterday?

There's just too much that is subjective here. I think at the very least the Beavercats should've called or text'd me to say "hey, Garcia isn't playing and I think you should switch to McCown." In that case I would've said "absolutely, make the switch for me."

Get ready for major controversy when someone else makes a last minute judgement call on an injury, gambles in the wrong direction, then has a backup at that position blow the fuck up. I hope it happens in the Jankster Cup.

It boils down to us needing more cut and dry rules and less subjective ones.

"Any time you start a player that is ruled out due to injury, in stead of suffering the consequences you automatically get the highest scoring player's points at the same position"

I would vote NO on that language.

Or

"Any time you start a player that is ruled out due to injury, and league managment beleives you are asleep at the wheel, they are to call, text and email you to switch your lineup and if you still are asleep at the wheel then they get to make the change for you"

Thoughts?

[Beavercat]

I agree, we do need 'cut & dry' language around this. But for somebody who 'starts their day at 6:48 AM' and is arguing that the PAFFL isn't important to make obvious lineup changes during the game, its suspicious how hard you're arguing a practice we've used for years in the PAFFL.

The reality is we've done this in past when an owner was being delinquent or irresponsible (in Naughty Thoughts case it seems a little of both), and its obvious that was the case here.

If somebody would like to propose something for the future, I think its the right thing to do (seems like we make a little progress like this every season :). My only request is if we catch an owner doing what NT is, they should be immediately kicked out of the league. Period!

BTW - My changed the lineup well before the start of the afternoon games. And for the record I checked EVERY lineup, not just the Naughty Thoughts. Unlike in past years we've had a solid participation and a steady decline in delinquent lineups.

[Naughty Thoughts]

The only thing that needs to be discussed is some form of cut and dry language to address this issue now and going forward and the only reason I'm spending time on this is in fairness to the league because this "practice we've used for years" isn't being applied consistently and uniformly and that bothers me.

That said, if we are going to have a rule that allows the Commissioner to make lineup changes, I believe that we should adopt one of the following two rule amendment options:

A) The Commissioner shall ALWAYS (meaning consistently and uniformly for the entire regular PAFFL season of weeks 1-13) make lineup adjustments for other teams when a player is ruled out (even if the player is a last minute scratch). The Commissioner shall issue a warning to the uninformed owner for the first infraction. Each successive infraction shall result in the owner being fined $10 (PAFFL dollars) at the next auction.

or

B) The Commissioner shall NEVER have the power to make lineup changes during weeks 1-9 of the PAFFL regular season, but shall be given power to ALWAYS (meaning consistently and uniformly for the entire regular PAFFL season of weeks 1-13) make lineup adjustments for other teams when a player is ruled out (even if the player is a last minute scratch). The Commissioner shall issue a warning to the uninformed owner for the first infraction. Each successive infraction shall result in the owner being fined $10 (PAFFL dollars) at the next auction.

I would vote "yes" (as outlined above) for either amendment to our current rule.

[Naughty Thoughts]

Sorry,

"B" Should be slightly tweaked to give the Commissioner line-up change power during weeks 10-13 and should read:

B) The Commissioner shall NEVER have the power to make lineup changes during weeks 1-9 of the PAFFL regular season, but shall be given power to ALWAYS (meaning consistently and uniformly for the regular PAFFL season of weeks 10-13) make lineup adjustments for other teams when a player is ruled out (even if the player is a last minute scratch). The Commissioner shall issue a warning to the uninformed owner for the first infraction. Each successive infraction shall result in the owner being fined $10 (PAFFL dollars) at the next auction.

[Beavercat]

FYI - and to reiterate for those that don't read everything in its entirety.

RE: Larry Fitzgerald - I could not switch him out B/C Team Kitty did NOT have another WR to start, he had mistakenly placed his other WR's in the non WR spots - so technically I couldn't make a switch.

[Naughty Thoughts]

I still don't see why Des Clark couldn't have been in there? If it were your team you would've moved A.Johnson from "flex" to "WR" and then moved Des Clark to "Flex" and it would've been done.

And on Blak Jesus' qb situation?

And on Javon Walker in week 12?

[Team Kitty]

What about Marty's behavior was "delinquent" or "irresponsible?"

Still trying to figure that one out. The dude, who has a very young child, I might add, woke up at 6:48 a.m. to make changes to his PAFFL lineup. What part of Marty's actions required oversight? I don't really get it.

[Isotopes]

I have a young child as well, and even in the midst the worst year in our franchise's history, the Paffl still comes fist. Just kidding,... sort of.

[todd2006]

here's a question:

If the Naughty Thoughts was fighting for a playoff spot, would he have kept a better eye on his roster?

I gotta believe he would.

Something to think about.....

[Beavercat]

Look I don't want this to disintegrate into a personal attack b/c that's not the intent.

RE: Desmond Clark - Larry Fitzgerald - Team Kitty was and always is managing his lineup by the minute, so you have to ask him why he didn't swap those guys out. I readily admit that I didn't look at his lineup.

RE: New Language or specific rule around this - I'm 100% supportive of this, I hate being the commissioner during situations like this b/c I become the target when all I'm doing is trying to do what's best for the PAFFL.

I know Team Kitty and the Naughty Thoughts clearly feel this is Bullshit! But its also bullshit for the Fightin' Irie and Firkin Crawlers who are battling for that last playoff spot.

This isn't something that was random, you can argue it was arbitrary but it wasn't random nor is it something that is new to the league as we've been making lineup substitutions for teams for more than the past 10 years.

What I propose is this:
1) PAFFL officials (Commissioner, treasuer & secretary) may NOT ever make lineup changes arbitrarily unless given permission from that team. However if a PAFFL team leaves a benched QB or K (unless they don't have another option) they are penalized $10 in the following season's cap space for each such violation.

2) And this is most important, we alter the rookie tournament to give all non-playoff teams the ability to win into the #1 spot. The proposal I wrote last year (link is in the original post above) would ensure no team was motivated to throw games at the end of the season while also ensuring the worst teams were protected with a relatively high rookie pick.

Thoughts?

For the record, Team Kitty didn't swap Larry Fitz out of their line-up because they swore up and down that Larry Fitz was going to play. They were warned that actually NO, Larry wasn't going to play and that it was a risk to keep him in the line-up. Team Kitty had access to the internet. Instead, they were engaging in alternate activities at that point.

Also, from my conversations with Team Kitty, they would have started Evans and NOT Clark.

I've made changed in the past during these last few weeks for teams that are out of the playoffs and not paying attention. There is precedent for what the Beavercats did.

[todd2006]

that was me, btw.

[Irie]

Beavercats for PRECEDENT!

[Jack Tripper]

I love the PAFFL - I think it's good for the PAFFL and Team Kitty's legend if something bad happens to them every year.